The Kiev government started an Ukraine Orthodox Church to separate from the Metropolitan of Moscow, and began stigmatizing those not doing as Henry VIII demanded. So far no martyrs, like St Thomas Moore.
In the Polish and Rumania add ons there are numerous “Catholics” with loose affiliation to Rome lusting for Teutonic order crusades.
This is excellent and very informative. Valuable to have. But I'm still not quite clear on the validity, legitimacy of the Ukrainian state. Perhaps a further essay could clarify it a little more?
I think he says today's Ukrainians try to postulate a state by referring back to the UNR and ZUNR instead of to
" the more successful Soviet experience within which the
formation of territorial borders took place and creation of Ukrainian
civic nation began. "
I'd like that clarified if possible.
What I learn is that contrary to what I'd believed there apparently are many millions who do speak Ukrainian and consider themselves Ukrainian and there has been a Ukrainian State of some sort since at least early 1900. Right?
It says. to paraphrase a little:
"So in early days of statehood united UNR and ZUNR = two people: Galicians and 'little russians' of central Ukraine or Naddnepryanskaya Ukraine.
PLus third people: Russians in E and S Slobozhanshchina and Novorossiya.
from which modern ukraine inherited territory boundaries. "
So what 'State' was this and when declared and what boundaries?
And it seems to make clear by saying 'third people' that Russians were different and 'a third'. But it also suggests that 'little russians' were also 'russians' : "one people". So what are we to think, to understand?
Was this three people: galician 'ukrainians' speaking ukrainian, thinking 'ukraine', little russians essentially russian and thirdly 'pure' russians - or was it two? Or even 'one' ?
I care about people. Like to see things from the point of view of people rather than regimes. Regimes tell people who and what they are and they are often telling a lie and forcing people to conform and perpetuating evil.
To my mind the point is where are the 'ukrainian' people if anywhere at all and it seems to me they are in Galicia is all.
What was this
" more successful Soviet experience within which the formation of territorial borders took place and creation of Ukrainian civic nation began. " ?
What were the borders then and what people inhabited them?
You say:
"population census 1989 Russians 22.07% of Ukrainian USSR 2001 census 77.8% Ukraine, 17.28% Russian."
That seems to make it very clear there's a predominant population of 'Ukrainians' and therefore they must have an area and a right to that area. I'd like to know which area.
I'm just looking for understanding. Sorry if I'm not properly comprehending what's put before me.
My sympathies are with the people of Ukraine and by that I mean ALL the people of Ukraine: Kiev Ukraine and Donbas Ukraine. That Kiev Ukraine is so manipulated and tricked into attacking their brothers is a crying shame and a total evil. That they can be so brainwashed as to believe while they stand on their brother's land as invaders that they are actually repelling invasion just flabbergasts me and leaves me in awe at the power of american and msm propaganda.
That they can swallow a meme such as fight to the last man as a glorious aim just boggles the mind entirely: where is the glory in a population fighting to the last man? To have no one left?
For what? For the right to dominate their brother? Either we have the right to dominate our brothers, take their land, kill the culture, or we would rather all die? ? ? ?
Please, someone, show me some rationality in that, some reason, somewhere. There is none.
So I am sorry for them, their hallucination, their suffering, their half million dead and I am sorry for their brothers in Donbas who've fought for 10 years merely to protect their own. For nothing more than the right to protect their own.
So I look for a clearer understanding of history of this 'nation' and would like to have it. But it's a relatively minor detail. The major 'detail' : let it all stop.
Excellent article, thank you for posting. This goes a long way to understanding the mess.
Thanks for reading and for your kind words.
The Kiev government started an Ukraine Orthodox Church to separate from the Metropolitan of Moscow, and began stigmatizing those not doing as Henry VIII demanded. So far no martyrs, like St Thomas Moore.
In the Polish and Rumania add ons there are numerous “Catholics” with loose affiliation to Rome lusting for Teutonic order crusades.
US’ Knights of Columbus are all in on Crusading.
This is excellent and very informative. Valuable to have. But I'm still not quite clear on the validity, legitimacy of the Ukrainian state. Perhaps a further essay could clarify it a little more?
I think he says today's Ukrainians try to postulate a state by referring back to the UNR and ZUNR instead of to
" the more successful Soviet experience within which the
formation of territorial borders took place and creation of Ukrainian
civic nation began. "
I'd like that clarified if possible.
What I learn is that contrary to what I'd believed there apparently are many millions who do speak Ukrainian and consider themselves Ukrainian and there has been a Ukrainian State of some sort since at least early 1900. Right?
It says. to paraphrase a little:
"So in early days of statehood united UNR and ZUNR = two people: Galicians and 'little russians' of central Ukraine or Naddnepryanskaya Ukraine.
PLus third people: Russians in E and S Slobozhanshchina and Novorossiya.
from which modern ukraine inherited territory boundaries. "
So what 'State' was this and when declared and what boundaries?
And it seems to make clear by saying 'third people' that Russians were different and 'a third'. But it also suggests that 'little russians' were also 'russians' : "one people". So what are we to think, to understand?
Was this three people: galician 'ukrainians' speaking ukrainian, thinking 'ukraine', little russians essentially russian and thirdly 'pure' russians - or was it two? Or even 'one' ?
I care about people. Like to see things from the point of view of people rather than regimes. Regimes tell people who and what they are and they are often telling a lie and forcing people to conform and perpetuating evil.
To my mind the point is where are the 'ukrainian' people if anywhere at all and it seems to me they are in Galicia is all.
What was this
" more successful Soviet experience within which the formation of territorial borders took place and creation of Ukrainian civic nation began. " ?
What were the borders then and what people inhabited them?
You say:
"population census 1989 Russians 22.07% of Ukrainian USSR 2001 census 77.8% Ukraine, 17.28% Russian."
That seems to make it very clear there's a predominant population of 'Ukrainians' and therefore they must have an area and a right to that area. I'd like to know which area.
I'm just looking for understanding. Sorry if I'm not properly comprehending what's put before me.
My sympathies are with the people of Ukraine and by that I mean ALL the people of Ukraine: Kiev Ukraine and Donbas Ukraine. That Kiev Ukraine is so manipulated and tricked into attacking their brothers is a crying shame and a total evil. That they can be so brainwashed as to believe while they stand on their brother's land as invaders that they are actually repelling invasion just flabbergasts me and leaves me in awe at the power of american and msm propaganda.
That they can swallow a meme such as fight to the last man as a glorious aim just boggles the mind entirely: where is the glory in a population fighting to the last man? To have no one left?
For what? For the right to dominate their brother? Either we have the right to dominate our brothers, take their land, kill the culture, or we would rather all die? ? ? ?
Please, someone, show me some rationality in that, some reason, somewhere. There is none.
So I am sorry for them, their hallucination, their suffering, their half million dead and I am sorry for their brothers in Donbas who've fought for 10 years merely to protect their own. For nothing more than the right to protect their own.
So I look for a clearer understanding of history of this 'nation' and would like to have it. But it's a relatively minor detail. The major 'detail' : let it all stop.